Curse

Senketsou · Jun 15, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Just saw a random topic about Clamor of Souls being very underated. Also having a Channeling Ritualist, I see this being a somewhat decent? skill... no, this skill is horrible, sorry... Look at the numbers...

Clamor of Souls [Elite]
10 Energy
1 Second Cast
12 Second Recharge

Does 94 Damage at 12 Channeling, and 122 Damage at 16 Channeling...

Description: For each nearby ally, one nearby foe is struck for 10...94 lightning damage.
(Note: The same target cannot be struck more than once)

This is a conditional elite meaning you can only deal damage if a spirit or ally is standing nearby, and also you can only attack the number of foes equivalent to spirits/allies... "Nearby" remember that term.... Now read this

Flame Burst [NOT Elite]
15 Energy
3/4 Second Cast
5 Second Recharge

Does 99! Damage at 12 Fire and 127! Damage at 16 Fire... Hmmm?

Description: All "nearby" foes are struck for 15...99 fire damage.

Ok, please understand this skill is stronger than Clamor of Souls... also this skill will hit ALL nearby foes... There is no condition to which hitting these foes will be effected if not fulfilled...

Yes I understand there is 5 more energy required to run this skill, however run an attunement, your problem is solved... also Elementalists have Energy storage. I understand that Ritualists are not to be as strong towards the "Nuking" end as Elementalists, however if you ask me this skill is highly underated as an elite. Please do something to fix this problem, I would like to see channeling for ritualists to have atleast somewhat a better elite for a damage spell... Thanks ANet if you decide to fix this issue. And thanks in advance to those who can see the problem here.

Got this information from

Clamor of Souls off Wiki.org
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Clamor_of_Souls

Flame Burst off Wiki.org
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Flame_Burst

Original Post by 'Insert Cool Name Here'
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3055762

The Lich Ranger · Jun 15, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Why is everyone complaining about skills being to good? they are not overpowerde!!

B Ephekt · Jun 15, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Ritualist are not elementalist... so what's your point?

lyra_song · Jun 15, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

No, hes complaining that the elite is WEAK compared to a regular spell.

Ie: he wants an elite buff.

SirJackassIII · Jun 15, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

/signed

It's one of those craptacular Elites from Factions...

Senketsou · Jun 15, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Yes I am looking for a bit of an Elite Buff... Im not saying that Flame Burst is overpowered, in a sense yes, but I am using Flame Burst as an example as to why Clamor of Souls needs to be a bit stronger... Why everybody has to flame every thread should be the question here, If you disagree with the thread say so in a valid arguement... Do not just drop by to p*** on it... TY

B Ephekt · Jun 15, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Ritualists are not a damage heavy class by default like elementalists are, so it makes sense that ele skills would do more damage. Take a look at the Channeling line, most skills in there are relatively low damage, high cost, have long recharges and are situational. Rits are not nukers...

And if you still don't get my point, stop comparing apples and oranges and go look at necro and mesmer elites... most do less immediate damage than Flame Burst, and are situational.

Senketsou · Jun 15, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Ok, you were right about one thing and one thing only, Rit's channeling spells are situational. Look up what channeling really is, another form of "Flame Slinging" It adds another component to Nuking if played correct, and understood correctly, which you are not doing. You 'B Ephekt' are not looking at the situation at hand... I'm sorry but unless you really understand the idea behind an elite skill maybe you shouldnt be posting here?

B Ephekt · Jun 15, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senketsou

Ok, you were right about one thing and one thing only, Rit's channeling spells are situational. Look up what channeling really is, another form of "Flame Slinging" It adds another component to Nuking if played correct, and understood correctly, which you are not doing. You 'B Ephekt' are not looking at the situation at hand... I'm sorry but unless you really understand the idea behind an elite skill maybe you shouldnt be posting here?

Haha, I like how you complain about people flaming, then reply with condescending garbage. gg

OK, first off, I play a rit in both pve and high level pvp. Channeling is absolutely horrible for sustained damage, due to the long recharges and cast times. And, no, it's nowhere near comparable to ele nuking. But that wasn't my point...

Since you apparently missed my point, let me simplify it for you. Elementalists are primarily a damage dealing class; almost all of their damage is direct and unsituational. Every other caster class is different, however. Look at necro, mesmer and monk (smiting) elites. Most, if not all, of them pale in comparison to Flame Burst when taking direct damage capabilites and context into account.

Let's see. Just a few elites off the top of my head.

FoC = 84 base damage, requires hexes to deal additional damage. Conditional.
SS = 37 damage, but only if the target attacks or uses a skill. Conditional and DoT hex.
Icy Veins = 95 damage, but requires the target to die in order to deal additional damage. Conditional, and relies on a hex for additional damage.

Energy Surge = Requires the target to have enough energy to deal damage. Conditional.
Panic = Requires a signet to be used to deal damage. Conditional.
IW = requires melee attacks to trigger. Conditional, and a DoT enchantment.

SoJ = 54 damage, but only if attacked. Conditional and DoT enchantment.
Signet of judgement = Only 79 damage.
Ray of judgement = 110 damage but disables all other smiting prayer skills for 10 seconds. Situational, and not very useful outside of a spike.

Are you finally starting to see my point? Other casters simply do less damage than elementalists, IF you look at short-term direct unconditional damage. Does that mean that all the above elite skills (which I apparently have no grasp of lol

) are garbage?

Please.

Also, when in pve or pvp will you not be around enough allies or spirits to do a decent amount of damage with Clamor? It seems like a nice elite for a Channeling rit to me...

I'm sorry, but I see no reason for a buff.

TGgold · Jun 15, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

You still don't get it.

In short:
Clamor does less damage, to as many targets as there are allies in the NEARBY range.
Burst does more damage to ALL of the targets in the NEARBY - clamor can only hit all enemies in this range conditionally.

Clamor is much different from the skills you posted - most of them are punishment skills. Or they have valuable effects, like KNOCKDOWN which clamor lacks. Most of the *low damage* skills you brought up either have a long duration or extraordinary added bonues. Clamor is a direct damage skill.

Basically:
Why should a normal spell have more damage, less recharge, and guarenteed hit to everyone nearby when compared to an elite spell?

Ensign · Jun 15, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Clamor doesn't have the aftercast of suck as far as I know. It's a bit worse than Star Burst. Given the professions and attributes involved...eh.

Peace,
-CxE

Thom · Jun 15, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

TGgold, you are the one who doesn't get it.
Clamor is a ritualist spell.
Burst is an elementalist spell.

By design your elementalist skills will be more powerful. You can't compare elite versus standard skills across classes. Would it make any sense to give ritualists direct damage comparable to elementalists, when this is where elementalists are designed to be strong?

lyra_song · Jun 15, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Let's see. Just a few elites off the top of my head.

FoC = 84 base damage, requires hexes to deal additional damage. Conditional.
SS = 37 damage, but only if the target attacks or uses a skill. Conditional and DoT hex.
Icy Veins = 95 damage, but requires the target to die in order to deal additional damage. Conditional, and relies on a hex for additional damage.

Energy Surge = Requires the target to have enough energy to deal damage. Conditional.
Panic = Requires a signet to be used to deal damage. Conditional.
IW = requires melee attacks to trigger. Conditional, and a DoT enchantment.

SoJ = 54 damage, but only if attacked. Conditional and DoT enchantment.
Signet of judgement = Only 79 damage.
Ray of judgement = 110 damage but disables all other smiting prayer skills for 10 seconds. Situational, and not very useful outside of a spike.

Yes situational, but some have have higher perks and are worth being elites than simply being spike/DOT Aoe. Some just suck.

FoC: Armor ignoring damage, Self Heal.
SS: Also functions as shutdown. Armor ignoring damage. Moving AOE.
Icy Veins: Armor ignoring damage. Moving AOE. But who uses this?

ESurge: Energy denial (albeit nerfed). Requires no line of sight.
Panic: <---Does anyone actually use this shit?
IW: read panic.

SoJ: Two words: knockdown.
Signet of Judgement: Knockdown. But mostly useless
Ray of judgement: Armor ignoring (IIRC)

Nevin · Jun 15, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

/not signed

unholy guardian · Jun 15, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

/not sighned

ugg i mispell signed all the time, but w\e

if you boost rits power to nuke.. they become >ele and, really the eles job to do just shoot and blow the freaken crap outta stuff, they dont heal or migiate damage like the rit can, rit pull sstrengh from many sources, but shouldn't overpower really anything that is was based on. Except like monk protect seems kinda less than a rit for team support, still though. Give it more power than necros and its the new mm, more power than ele, new nuker, more healing and team support than monk, new monk

then rit is > god > chuck norris

you might as well be using attuned was ____ because if your a channeling rit you need energy badly since you don't have attunements

B Ephekt · Jun 15, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

TGgold, you are the one who doesn't get it.
Clamor is a ritualist spell.
Burst is an elementalist spell.

By design your elementalist skills will be more powerful. You can't compare elite versus standard skills across classes. Would it make any sense to give ritualists direct damage comparable to elementalists, when this is where elementalists are designed to be strong?

Yes, that is exactly my point. I'm sure NCSoft intentionally avoided making the ritualist a comparable damage dealer to an elementalist, because they have different roles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Yes situational, but some have have higher perks and are worth being elites than simply being spike/DOT Aoe. Some just suck.

I agree, I was just poiting out that most elites are situational and deal less direct damage than Flame Burst (which was what his argument was based around). I think the perk for Clamor would be the possibility of doing 122 damage to all nearby enemies, though.

Arcador · Jun 15, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Ok, with Flame attribut you can just...deliver damage - A lot, in Aoe and even DoT.

With Channeling attribute you can boost yer spawns, use a LOT of different support skills AND Deliver a quite good amount of damage. That is why it is Elite, because with support attribute you can deliver AoE damage. It will be just like a PROT monk deals DMG with his PROT attribute - quite distrubing aye?

TadaceAce · Jun 15, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

ritualists can heal, rez, protect themselves, eles are helpless little creatures who turn over and die when hit hard. Well sure they can go E/Mo, but why should an ele have to go E/Mo to match a ritualist when a rit can go Rt/? whatever they feel like.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 16, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Because of Elite Status and conditional random hits based on enemies around you rather than just anyone in your area, I would agree that it should either be stronger or cheaper.

People rag on Elementist because he is a focal nuker, yet his damage isn't the best as it claims, and No Elementist is worth his wile if he isn't mixing defensive skills in his build to support the team rather then just attack. As a Ritualist Elite I think it should be more "effective" in one way or another.

Personally I would suggest that it have a much wider radius of effect, simular to the range of a spirit, allowing it to encompass more allies and more enemies, at either a higher energy cost or lower damage. Ritualist shouldn't be the same as Elementist, but balance is balance, and he shouldn't be using an elite skill for a weaker effect than elementist. 5 more energy granted, Elementist has more energy and energy management, Flame Burst has a shorter recast, and it isn't a circumstancial hit number, it hits any and all nearby foes.

That being said, the effectiveness of that attribute as a whole comes into question, Fire Mastery only improves the power of offensive spells, there are nearly no defensive or support skills in Fire Mastery, wile Channelling includes some spirits, many skills which deal extra damage with spirits for low cost, and spirit healin + damage combination skills, the overall usefullness of an empowered attribute, not just on skill in that attribute vs one from another attribute, this compliments advanced balancing issues.

Balance is realy complicated, I'm sure Anet knows their game better then we do. I dislike the way alot of things work, some of them I don't agree are balanced, but that doesn't mean they arn't balanced, they may suck, but that doesn't make them unbalanced......... I don't see the point of having sucky skills though.........

TheLordOfBlah · Jun 16, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

TGgold, you are the one who doesn't get it.
Clamor is a ritualist spell.
Burst is an elementalist spell.

By design your elementalist skills will be more powerful. You can't compare elite versus standard skills across classes. Would it make any sense to give ritualists direct damage comparable to elementalists, when this is where elementalists are designed to be strong?

Agreed 100%

Making Rit skills comparable to ele skills is like making wand attacks comparable to warrior hammer attacks. It doesnt make any sense at all!